question about slipper clutches - Honda RC51 Forum : RC51 Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
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question about slipper clutches

curious if this would help with me losing the front a little when im tipping into the apex and downshifting to hard. i know its my riding style that should really be fixed but any info on this would be helpful. i love my engine braking most of the time but into 1st gear and letting out the clutch as i tip in it gets a little much...

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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 01:24 PM
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It might help, but the real issue is you are downshifting while cornering.
This is upsetting the bike, and causing the problem.
You should have selected the right gear before entering the turn.

Search on Youtube for Keith Code's Twist Of The Wrist video.
It has some campy acting, but beyond the acting is some really great info on riding theory and technique.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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Yes sub i have all the books etc
Im in gear but releasing the clutch as im entering hard on the brakes
I know it has more to do with my riding than the bike but didnt know if it would help. Also on double apexs i will still downshift while leaned over
I onow i need to be more smoother i also use the engine braking so didnt know if it eliminates it too much

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SubSailor View Post
It might help, but the real issue is you are downshifting while cornering.
This is upsetting the bike, and causing the problem.
You should have selected the right gear before entering the turn.
I am with Sub on this one. As you start to lean in to the corner, there should be no slowing down going on. At this point you should be either maintenance throttle or slightly acceleration.

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 03:35 PM
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fix yourself before the bike my friend...from what I understand the Slipper is suppose to ease gear changes right? IMHO I think the stock system is just fine, but if you got some heavy skills and want more then by all means go for it. Perhaps LDH can chime in or some one else with extensive knowledge....

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by screamin chief View Post
Yes sub i have all the books etc
Im in gear but releasing the clutch as im entering hard on the brakes
I know it has more to do with my riding than the bike but didnt know if it would help. Also on double apexs i will still downshift while leaned over
I know i need to be more smoother i also use the engine braking so didnt know if it eliminates it too much

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I am surprised that riding style has not ended up hurting you bad man, I had a guy on a group ride do something like that few years back, bike unsettled and went right off the road.... ended up with him in the bushes and a broken collar bone and wrist.

-2001 Honda RC51 sp1 " Slightly Modified "
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by screamin chief View Post
Yes sub i have all the books etc
Im in gear but releasing the clutch as im entering hard on the brakes
I know it has more to do with my riding than the bike but didnt know if it would help. Also on double apexs i will still downshift while leaned over
I onow i need to be more smoother i also use the engine braking so didnt know if it eliminates it too much

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I have a slipper clutch on the engine I'll be swapping over to on my bike, but I personally have not yet ridden an RC51 with one.

Big twins have a lot more flywheel and two big pistons that I4's don't have, so it can be easy to unload the rear wheel under heavy breaking with throttle closed.
I would say that a slipper clutch in this case would probably aid with allowing the rear wheel to rotate and not break loose.
Although it's not meant to compensate for riding style.

I've watch rider video during a race event where the rider (on a 600c) would bang it down 2 or more gears and let the slipper fend for itself.
Even then, you could hear the rear tire squeal as it was too much even for the slipper clutch to compensate for.

I'm sure Keith Code would have plenty to say after viewing that video.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JusAnadaMexican View Post
fix yourself before the bike my friend...from what I understand the Slipper is suppose to ease gear changes right? IMHO I think the stock system is just fine, but if you got some heavy skills and want more then by all means go for it. Perhaps LDH can chime in or some one else with extensive knowledge....
I'm with you in that the stock system is just fine... IF you are riding at the edge of the envelope then yea a slipper clutch is beneficial, but the vast majority of riders are not anywhere close to pushing their racebikes, let alone their RC51 nostalgia bike, to a point where a crash is imminent from the rear end hopping around because they don't have a slipper clutch...

The RC is also a very forgiving bike to let the rear end back itself in with. I learned a lot about riding on my RC51... Downshift an extra gear entering a slower turn at the speed of heat and dump the clutch and you can feel the ass end of the bike kick out and then automatically correct itself as soon as the rpms match up to the wheel speed. When I learned how to do it proficiently on the RC51 it really helped me apply that to my riding style on other bikes that aren't so forgiving. And believe me some turns just really need to be squared up like that and I would never dream of trying to do it with the rear brake as it takes a ton of skill to get it right, but I have no qualms whatsoever about trusting the gyroscopic effect of the engine combined with the physics of compression braking and a little common sense to let the bike do what comes natural for it.

I also will concur that you should have your braking manuever in progress and your downshifting completed before you enter the turn so that you can get immediately back on the gas even if it is just maintenance throttle.

An often overlooked issue with Slipper Clutches is they require maintenance to keep them working properly. Spider springs and clutch plates wear out more frequently and need to be refreshed. I personally hate working on my own bikes even more so when I wad one up while leading Novice Class riders around Wait, where was I? Oh yea the last thing I want to do is have down time or more expense to work on parts I installed on my bike that are supposed to make my seat time better.

Damn I just went on and on and on and on
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-30-2012, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
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The proper thrashing i expected! Although got it easy from LDH imagine that lol!!! I admit my riding isnt anywhere close to expert. Maybe i should he more clear. In a doubpe apex, the on/off feeling when i let off the gas unsettles the front etc. When tipping it more for the tightening of the second part of the turn. Does a slipper reduce any of the engine braking?

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-30-2012, 12:08 PM
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Chief here is what I got from Wiki If it helps....

A slipper clutch (also known as a slider clutch or back-torque limiter) is a specialized clutch developed for performance oriented motorcycles to mitigate the effects of engine braking when riders decelerate as they enter corners.
The slipper clutch consists of two bases, one with dog clutches and ramps with ball bearings, a splined hub, and clutch plates. In normal operation, the dog clutches mate, driving the transmission. When a back torque comes from the transmission, the splined hub slides up the bearing ramps, disconnecting from the clutch plates.
They are designed to partially disengage or "slip" when the rear wheel tries to drive the engine faster than it would run under its own power. The engine braking forces in conventional clutches will normally be transmitted back along the drive chain causing the rear wheel to hop, chatter or lose traction. This is especially noted on larger displacement four-stroke engines, which have greater engine braking than their two-stroke or smaller displacement counterparts. Slipper clutches eliminate this extra loading on the rear suspension giving riders a more predictable ride and minimize the risk of over-reving the engine during downshifts. Slipper clutches can also prevent a catastrophic rear wheel lockup in case of engine seizure or transmission failure. Generally, the amount of force needed to disengage the clutch is adjustable to suit the application.
Slipper clutches have been used in most high displacement four stroke racing motorcycles since the early 1980s. Slipper clutches were introduced in the 1970s by John Gregory and TC Christenson on "Hogslayer" the most successful drag racing motorcycle of the 1970s. Made of bronze sintered plates from an earthmover and a Rambler 2 speed transmission, the drivetrain let TC reach 180 mph in the quarter mile. Slipper clutches are used on many current sport bikes.
Slipper clutches have also been used to a lesser extent on automobiles, primarily those powered by motorcycle engines. They can also be found on racing remote control cars. Some experimental aircraft use a slipper clutch to protect the engine from shock in the event of a propeller strike. A slipper clutch for an automobile was patented with a French priority date of 1953 to J.Maurice ETAL [US patent 3072234.] The principle of this slipper clutch was exactly the same as found in modern motorcycles
One-way sprag clutches have also been used for the same purpose, but are generally not adjustable for disengagement force. Early Honda Shadow models used a design wherein a sprag clutch is connected to just half of the clutch friction plates, allowing the clutch to slip during heavy backloading sufficiently to prevent rear-wheel lockup, while still allowing moderate engine compression braking with the remaining friction plates.

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