Suspension/braking=old guard vs new tech - Honda RC51 Forum : RC51 Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-07-2011, 12:06 AM Thread Starter
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Suspension/braking=old guard vs new tech

Hello my name is jake i am 46 and have 3 passions 1.motorcycling 2.unique engineering/ performance builds. 3.motorcycle road racing.

I was in real estate and was ..lucky.. Enough to see the drop and got out so i am living a dream ive always had which is to own a race team (pita lol) that being said and buying/selling 27 bikes in 1.5 years ive tried about every suspension and braking unit on the market.

Ohlins and brembo have been on top for as long as i can remember. In the states they are king. Saying something is better is almost looked upon as a crime lol. .. But remember the usa does small numbers in motorcycle sales/accessories across the board when compared to europe.
Ohlins is still number 1 in the world, but the european markets are big enough for smaller upstart companies to make and specialty units made of unobtanium at a higher price to hardcore enthusiast. Mupo=www.lemickracing.com -look at the mupo ap1 evo shock and the carbon fiber triple tree ,independently adjustable 52? Mm mupo forks are just bike porno lol. Ohlins could never produce such a high end unit in the numbers they sell.you would be waiting a year for your shock to come in . Bitubo is also better but go mupo.=drawback-service if you service your shocks(i just get a new one )ohlins has service , good luck going to italy with the mupo or bitubo
i have always been a faithful brembo customer but after hearing the new swedish isr braking system was not only more powerful but the feel was so good .... You could feel running over flea on the road ... I bought a set ..... Yes they are better ..and a bit cheaper to boot . Beringer same feel , a bit more power and ap braking better feel, more power than brembo 2nd to the isr units .

Conclusion: In brakes isr is the way to go ,, they had a problem keeping up with pad suppy last year but have no geared up and pads are easy to get .... This year brembo dropped the ball on higher end units and there pads are harder to find than the holy grail (waited 6 months no pads had to go vesrah)

suspension: Rear shock...nitron!! Ohlins quality fantastic pricing .... If you want the best suspension =mupo but service is nill
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-07-2011, 12:11 AM Thread Starter
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Ps mupo fork cartriges actually fit our oddball forks and now they work ....better ... Yes better ... Than the 10,000$ ohlins fgr000 superbike forks on the team race bike .

Just to let you now i am like a bookie , i have no brand loyalty what so ever . If you hear me give praise its because the product works well.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-07-2011, 12:15 AM
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cool thanks for the write up. Im going to look into the ISR brake stuff when my galfers wear a bit more.

Ive heard awesome things about Mupo

The Stig had mentioned Nitron and Maxton....first time i heard of them. i'm going to look into both a bit more.

2001 Honda RC51 SP1
1996 Honda CBR 900RR
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille R
1999 Aprilia RS50
2012 Triumph Daytona 675R (Sold)
2010 BMW S1000RR (Sold)
2005 Yamaha R6 (Sold)
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-07-2011, 12:52 AM
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Hi Jake,

Well done for seeing it coming. I started asking myself where all the money was coming from and thinking a retraction would soon be coming in 2005, so began to sell in 2007, but I wish I'd followed my convictions 100%. Nice to hear of a success story & someone living their dream.

Mupo sounds very interesting - will look into those, thanks! ISR also looks great, I was drooling over those on Durbahn's website only weeks ago... For many they might be prohibitively expensive...

I looked and looked and compared design schematics of Brembo's top calipers with others that are available, all whilst trying to keep to a sensible budget. ISR is lovely stuff, but too pricey for my blood. Initially I convinced myself for about 600 Euros a set of new Brembo M4 monoblocks sourced directly from Italy (As fitted to the latest Ducati 1198's) would be a good choice, then, quite by accident I came across a beautifully modified SRAD GSXR600 in a UK bike mag sporting some delicious looking Discacciati calipers. www.discacciati.net - Their radial calipers (108) are similar in design to Brembo's costing over double the price for a pair and should work very well with suitable adaptors and my existing 19mm Brembo master cylinder. Also no problem with pads, many are widely available for this caliper, but not for the 4 pad 4 x 35mm calipers (Which would give brutally strong braking I think...Possibly too much for street use & tyres).

So I'm awaiting a set of 31/35 radial billet CNC calipers with optional titanium pistons, which cost 874 Euros incl. delivery. I'll be using Braketech Axis discs, which are stainless. Carbon or Ductile Iron would have been nice, but mine's a road bike for use all year, so I need to be relatively sensible with my choices & expenses.

Please keep us posted with drool worthy pictures of your modifications and progress. Well done for picking RC51's when you could so easily have chosen Ducati or other alternatives.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-07-2011, 12:58 AM
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BTW, for those that are interested Discacciati make a nice looking & inexpensive underslung brake kit. Sadly it's only for SP1 fitment. Remember there's 20% off the advertised discounted price for outside EU.

http://store.discacciati.net/index.p...d=200&Itemid=1

http://store.discacciati.net/compone...67c77c8610.jpg
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-07-2011, 01:35 AM
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nice thanks for the post Stig

2001 Honda RC51 SP1
1996 Honda CBR 900RR
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille R
1999 Aprilia RS50
2012 Triumph Daytona 675R (Sold)
2010 BMW S1000RR (Sold)
2005 Yamaha R6 (Sold)
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-07-2011, 06:19 AM Thread Starter
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Stig you are absolutly correct.For all intent and purposes Discacciati and Brembos function identically. Ive seen 2 riders test the two systems back to back . Both came back stating the feel/power whee the same as where there lap times.
Stig you will be very happy Discacciti, its a long standing company in europe and the Italians always make sharp looking components. As for Brake tech, THE best rotors on the market period. If you notice there design is a cut above (patented) where as the carriers are metal to metal with the rotors for better heat dissipation and the buttons do not carry the weight of the motorcycle therefore float better/easier.
We also run Brake tech rotors but use iron because of racing .
Rear brakes:The forgotten handing tool. When your interviewing riders a big tip to see if they are fast and have learned there trade is to ask how much and why they use there rear brakes. the best riders use the rear brakes for not only stopping but stabilizing the chassis and transfer of weight . Get a rear rotor that floats, it cost an extra 50$ but is money well spent as you have much more feel and much less tendency to brake traction because the flex/buttons give a gradual initial force to the rear wheel.

BTW STIG One of my .... keepers ... is a 2009 Ducati 1198 stock except for the usual engine breathing/ de -envirromentalizing so engine isnt running lean=free flow intake, exhaust and fueler . I like big twin sportbikes. I also have a Buell 1125 race exhaust/fuel injectors/ecu and a few EBR bits(maybe cam thats now available ,1125 best trackday bike on market ...new=6000$ and best handling literbike + now aftermarket performance parts available.)
MY FASTEST(ON BOTTOM END )BEST HANDLING SPORTBIKE IS ONE OF MY UNIQUE PERFORMANCE BUILDS. ON TIGHT TRACKS WITH SHORT STRAITS IT DRIVES OFF CORNERS SO HARD IT LEAVES THE NEW BMW S1000 BEHIND (BUT GETS PASSED EVENTUALLY ON LONGER STRAITS BY S1000)....DONT LAUGH TOO HARD LOL.... A 1420CC BUELL FIREBOLT XB12R. I WORKED WITH THE BUELL RACE DEPT, THE ENGINE IS A FULL FACTORY RACE 1320CC BUELL/HARLEY STROKED TO 1420CC ONE OFF FUEL INJECTION ECT ECT ECT AND I DEVELOPED A NEW FORCED AIR OIL COOLING SYSTEM SO THE HEAD TEMPS NEVER GO OVER 300 DEGREES . CAMS ARE 675 LIFT !!! EVERY BIT IN/OUT OF ENGINE IS SPECIAL 20,000 ALONE IN ENGINE.
BUT THE ENJOYMENT OF HARASSING A SQUID THAT HIS NEW ZX10 OR GSXR WAS BLOWN AWAY BY A ...HARLEY? ENGINED BIKE IS ...PRICELESS.. LOL I HAVE PICS BUT HAVE NO IDEA WHERE/HOW TO POST THEM ???? THIS BIKE HAS CERAMIC PERIMETER BRAKES =PHENOMINAL=ILLEGAL TO USE IN AMA/CCS ECT.

WHY SO QUICK/FAST ON BOTTOM END?=POWERBAND THIS ENGINE MAKES 135HP/115 TORQUE AT REAR WHEEL(SAME DYNO 2009 DUCATI 1198 144HP)VS BMW S1000 175 HP AT REAR WHEEL THE DIFFERANCE IS MY POWERBAND IS 2500-6500RPM AND AT 2500RPM IM ALREADY MAKING 100HP... THE BMW S1000 DOESNT MAKE SUBSTANCIAL HP TILL 9000 RPM TO 12500 RPM ....... OFF A CORNER=BY THE TIME THE S1000 STARTS MAKING HP I HAVE AT LEAST 100 HP AND AM PULLING AWAY ,GETTING TO THE CORNER BEFORE THE S1000. LONG STRAIT THOUGH THE 40HP ADVANTAGE OF THE S1000 SHOWS. AS THE ENGINE HITS ITS 9000RPM POWRER BAND AND CAN STRETCH ITS LEGS IT HAS TIME TO HIT TOP SPEEDS AND PASS THE BUELL 1420. THE RACE BIKE HAS 2600CC HAVE BOTH TOP AND BOTTOM POWERBUT THEN AGAIN IT HAS 2600CC LOL

Last edited by jake318; 05-07-2011 at 06:46 AM.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-07-2011, 06:48 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry i should have posted that under new heading lol
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-07-2011, 06:54 AM
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Thanks Jake,

Takes a lot of time looking at the different alternatives, but Discacciati & Brembo CNC's do look very similar, so I took the plunge and send the money to Italy yesterday. Feeling better about it now thanks to you

I used Ductite Iron front discs on my VFR (Along with 6 piston callipers), about 13-15 years ago and the brakes were stonkingly good back then, but I didn't really like the rust on the edges so I figured I'd trade a little performance for better looks since the RC51's such a pretty looking machine.

So I'm looking forward to having stonking brakes on the SP2 now.

Good advice on the floating rear rotor, I'll get one soon I guess... I do need to find a good underslung caliper carrier. Ladybird makes one here in in Japan which I may have to pip for, if I don't find anything else worthwhile, but I'm in no rush (still nursing my wallet from my expenses this week including a fun 2 stroke bike to tool around in our forested land around the house). Harris Performance in UK wanted 495 GBP for just a bracket which seemed a tad excessive...
Also have to research what caliper will work with the standard master cylinder or fit an uprated one. There's nothing wrong with having a decent rear brake, I guess. I ride on the road & in the rain when I get caught out, so... But I do hate the standard rear caliper and how it wobbles on it's mounts unless the brake pads stabalise it. Cost cutting from Honda right there, but I'm not complaining.

The 1420cc sounds like huge fun as no doubt is the Ducati 1198. A Beautiful bike indeed.

Go to www.photobucket.com and join. It's pretty much self explanatory how to cut & paste code - but once you upload a picture, hover over the code boxes below (Last on the list) and when it says copied, paste that code where you want to place a picture and when you post your reply the pictures will be displayed in glorious technicolour .
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-07-2011, 07:35 AM Thread Starter
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Stig you made the right decision on iron vs stainless. rule of thumb is =Iron is for racing stainless for street .( because of staining ) for a rear rotor I went with ALTH top quality company and good prices. Alth floating rear caliper (red carrier=looks great on RC) cost 125$or 115$ www.bellissimoto.com say jake sent you= discount. my buell XB1420R? beat ERIKS best XBRR(pissed him off lol=Erik is nice guy, down to earth.)
But I actually ruined it as a streetbike . Its SO high strung being that the Harley was NEVER designed to race or have anywhere near the 135 RWHP. keeping the revs low and the GIANT FORCED AIR oil cooler +6 quart capacity keeping the head temps below 300 degrees(thats VERY Cool) is the ONLY reason it holds together.


STIG IF YOU FIND AN UNDERSLUNG REAR BRAKE HANGER LET ME KNOW. ILL DO THE SAME FOR YOU. I MIGHT HAVE ONE FABRICATED , IF SO DO YOU WANT ONE ?
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