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Need Signal help

9K views 34 replies 6 participants last post by  kwtoxman 
#1 ·
Alright guys, new here. Got the RC51 home today. It had NO front signals at all. It had an undertail LED kit installed already. Installed the front flush signals I got from RC-Devil and got them working. Right now everything works exactly as it should. Switch left all blinks left, switch right all blinks right, push center and all are dim steady for running lights. Only issue is the instrument cluster light never goes out or changes, just stays lit amber. Once again, all of the switch activations work great. Any ides of where to start?
 
#2 · (Edited)
Hmm, try pulling the flasher relay, just disconnect the wiring clip and see if it goes out, with the LED lights thee might be an issue with the original relay.
Possible a feed is coming back from one of the daytime running lights front LEDs you could eliminate this (depending how you connected them) Disconnect them one at a time to see if that is the source... Electrics difficult to diagnose remote.
But if this does not work disconnect eveything front and rear then connect back one bit at a time, to see which component is giving the volts to the cluster.
Good luck
 
#3 ·
Thank you sir. Did exactly what you suggested up front, but have not in the rear. Where is the flasher relay located? Seems like if it was the flasher it would not flash at all...but that is coming from 1967 VW beetle knowledge!
 
#4 ·
Flasher relay is located in the tail of the bike. Your blinkers might also be blinking a bit faster than normal due to not having the LED flasher relay. New relay is $30ish.
 
#5 ·
Wadmaemgee, yup its a small black cube rubber mounted on outside of the frame through the tail cover, about half way along the tail aperture, next to the rectifier on the LH side. The one on the inside of the rail is the tip sensor, disconnectthat and the bike probably wont run.
i would send piccy but my RC is in the shop right now for suspension work, but I would advise trying disconnecting the rear running lights/side lights too, as a steady instrument light may indicate a permanent feed possibly caused by having a running light crossed somehow with one of your indicator feeds.

The reason I suggest the relay, as weyrauch, is putting turn signals from filament bulbs to LEDS can have funny effects due to incorrect loading on the OEM relay. elsewhere on here there is a link for a replacement solid state one, which I fitted to mine about three weeks ago to cure the rapid blink rate, $24 shipped. (Ledcustom).

Apologies for basics, but remote diags are difficult. Did this constant light occur after your fixing the previuos owners work or was it present on purchase whith the front turn signals missing? If the former I would suspect the undertail installation wiring may have a turn signal/ running light possibly earth return wrong. Only way to know is to disconnect there to see if it goes. A proper aftermarket modification ( tail) should have 'connectors' to allow body work removal, so it should be easy to disconnect for testing.

Elsewhere in forum is a pdf manual, within is a cct diagram, I have a hard copy and happy to fax/ scan the relevant page to you, then you could check the wires are as they should be.
If so I can do tonight, just off to work. Good Luck - john.
 
#10 ·
LOL thats the direct terminology for it! :D.

Get hold of the workshop diag, disconnect all the rear and start again. And no matter what blame the PO - previous owner !;)
 
#13 ·
Thanks weyrauch... This site is the best!

Mind you thats hell of a 'user handle' to rember to spell right! Ooops old cb radio terminology ....... Years are a showin'..........
 
#16 ·
Alright guys, update. Went through the wiring best I could...so far. Removed one bulb at a time from the system, not response other than the rest still working. Removed the rear flasher and the flashing system stopped, along with the orange light in the cluster. No signal response from the cluster and not signal at the 4 corners. Plugged it back up, all blinkers work as they should, and not a fast flash. Flashing at a rate I would consider normal. Still have the illuminated orange in the cluster. I would say it flashes every 1 second...second on, second off. Is it worth just trying to replace the flasher relay first, then try again? I can live with it as it is, just a pain in the ass and not correct... Help...
 
#17 ·
So with no blinkers on, the blinker indicator stays illuminated correct? You must have a running light wired incorrectly somewhere (so it seems). Do the rear blinkers stay illuminated like the front (the shouldn't)?

You said you removed the "rear flasher"...and the indicator went out, are you saying you removed the relay?
 
#21 ·
I agree with kwtoxman...to check a running light wires...disconnecting bulbs will fix nothing.

Just curious as to what was disconnected to make the light go off...as it sounded like he disconnected the relay.
 
#22 ·
Update

Sorry guys, been a crazy day. Yes, I unplugged the flasher relay. This caused the running lights, signal lights, as well as the console indicator to go out. When I plug it back in I get running lights on all 4 corners and a constant one condition of the orange indicator light in the console. As long as the bike is running the indicator light stays solid orange. If I push the blinker lateral switch off center it causes the appropriate side to flash at what seems to be a normal rate. Push the switch inward and all 4 corners go back to running light condition. Everything seems to be exactly how it should be, just have that super annoying light on all the time no matter what.

I do agree that there must be a running light tied in incorrectly somewhere. So the rear side markers should not be on constantly, then blink when switched? I am going to take a video and post it to my youtube page.
 
#23 ·
Sorry guys, been a crazy day. Yes, I unplugged the flasher relay. This caused the running lights, signal lights, as well as the console indicator to go out. When I plug it back in I get running lights on all 4 corners and a constant one condition of the orange indicator light in the console. As long as the bike is running the indicator light stays solid orange. If I push the blinker lateral switch off center it causes the appropriate side to flash at what seems to be a normal rate. Push the switch inward and all 4 corners go back to running light condition. Everything seems to be exactly how it should be, just have that super annoying light on all the time no matter what.

I do agree that there must be a running light tied in incorrectly somewhere. So the rear side markers should not be on constantly, then blink when switched? I am going to take a video and post it to my youtube page.
All four lights should NOT be lighted (as stated above). Only the front two blinkers should be constantly running, which means the rear blinkers are wired incorrectly.
 
#24 ·
Good info, so obviously the constant signal on the rears is back feeding into the system...obviously through the flasher relay for it all goes out when I remove it. Now to track that portion down...
 
#26 ·
I can't take credit for this, but here is what the wiring should be:

Brake/Taillight:
Green/Yellow = Brake Light
Green = Ground
Black/Brown = Tail Light

License Plate Light:
Black/Brown = License Plate Light (same electrical point as above)
Green = Ground

Left Rear Turn Signal:
Orange = Signal
Green = Ground

Right Rear Turn Signal:
Light-Blue = Signal
Green = Ground

Front Left Turn Signal/Running Light:
Orange = Signal
Orange/White = Running Light
Green = Ground

Front Right Turn Signal/Running Light:
Light-Blue = Signal
Light-Blue/White = Running Light
Green = Ground

Start with the tail (as it seems to be an integrated light setup). Ensure that rear blinkers do not have a running signal running to them.
 
#27 ·
Wade, do you have the stock rear blinkers with the stock rear brake light?
If so, (meaning your rear blinkers and brake lights are not an aftermarket integrated unit), then the rear blinkers do not act as running lights. They only blink.
But the stock brake lights do: they work as a running light until you activate the brake lever and/or brake pedal, then they get brighter.
I'm sort of just regurgitating what's already been stated above, but I hope it helps.
 
#29 ·
I remember having this happen while wiring my undertail briefly. Make sure the commons are kept separate in each circuit (Don't combine brake/tail commons) This for whatever reason caused a feedback to the dash signal indicator.

Check the wiring and let me know your situation.:cool:
 
#30 ·
Ok I just saw your video.
Those are protons you have on the front. Don't know what make that is on the back. I'm assuming it's LED?
If so, your flash rate is faster than I would expect it to be. The protons have 3 different settings: strobe, standard, and fade in fade out. Yours appear to be set on standard. When I tried that setting on my bike, the standard was a little slower than that.
My point here is I think you might need a new relay to get the flash rate correct for the LED's since the older Honda OEM relays are meant for standard bulbs.

Good video and good luck with getting that indicator bulb sorted.
 
#31 ·
Man, I LOVE you guys!!! Need to keep this thread around. Used to do a lot of car audio so I know DC will take the path of least resistance. I COMPLETELY rewired the rear tail. The ground was suspect and all of the connections were those dumb A$$ snap on clips. Soldered and shrank everything properly. Absolutely no change, just got brighter...which was good. Figured it MUST be the front. The PO had both the signal wire and the running wire in parallel and tied into the positive side of the front marker. Snipped the running wire, leaving just the signal wire and VOILA...proper signals all around. Some interesting points to note here. The tail wiring was 100% legit, yet the turn signals acted as running lights. There was only ONE proper wire going to them. My suspicion is from looking at the schematic that the fronts back feed into the console indicator light, thus backfeeding into the tail turn signals. Not only were the right and left sides of the tail running amber when signals were off but that kept the red led running lights from working all the way across, believe it or not. Once I snipped the two wires on the front the entire back light lit all the way across, and so did the brake light. So now the amber just over rides when using the signals. I also got the console light back proper to blink while the signals are on and completely off when they are not in use.

Only ingredient to sort out now is how to properly run 3 into 2 wire setup on the front signals. Not a deal breaker, this is leaps and bounds safer and better than where I was!!!

YES, success on a Friday night!!!

I also need a single rubber boot that attaches to the back of the main headlight assembly if anyone happens to have one laying around!!!

Thanks again guys. I will post a new video soon.

Now if someone has a question about signals, running lights, or brake lights...HIT ME UP!!!

Thanks again!
 
#32 ·
Proton color code (at least on my set):
Red = Running Light
Blk = Ground

For Signaling, select one of the following wires:
Org = Normal Signal
Yel = Strobe Effect
Org/Yel = Fade In/Out
----------------------
RC51 Wiring Harness
Front signal color code:

Right Front:
Green = Ground
Light Blue/White = Running Light
Light Blue = Signal

Left Front:
Green = Ground
Orange/White = Running Light
Orange = Signal

post #27
http://www.rc51forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4259&highlight=wiring+protons&page=3
 
#33 ·
I got these from RC-Devil, but I do not think they are Protons. They only have a pair of wires...a black and a red. I do not have the other wire options for other effects. I think they are the Cycle Gear brand ones actually.
 
#35 · (Edited)
Originally as from Honda, the bike should not have rear signals as running lights. They are either flashing or off (it is only a two wire set up on the back wiring).

On my bike the PO wired a rear undertail that used standard bulbs (as in incandescent) and he made the signal lights running lights as well. In this case, the dash bulb error came up. By removing the running lights wiring on the rear signals everything was fixed, no more dash bulb error.

The OP has an undertail with LED lights with a built in internal signal running light (2 wire) and it didn't cause the dash bulb error.

As such, I believe that the added power needed to run standard (i.e., incandescent) rear signal bulbs as running lights causes the bike to show the bulb dash error. And, since LED bulbs require much less power than the stock set up, LED rear signal lights can also be set up as running lights (if it is capable) and it won't result in a dash bulb error. I thought I'd discuss such nuances for future reference and troubleshooting. I'll add this to my LED bulb thread.

As for setting up a 3 wire system (signal, running and ground) into a two wire bulb, the solution has been already discussed on this forum. See here. http://www.rc51forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8438
 
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