Clutch lever feel - Honda RC51 Forum : RC51 Motorcycle Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Clutch lever feel

I am new to my 2000 rc and was wondering if it is normal for these bikes to have the clutch engage at the very far end of the lever travel. I bleed the system and cant seem to change it...thanks
RC723 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 08:49 PM
Lifetime Premium
 
MakisRC51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Korinthos, Greece
Posts: 3,239
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
If you are absolutely sure that there's no air in the system and still the lever engages far from the grip, apart from adjusting your lever to wherever work better for you, you should open the clutch cover, take out the friction and metal clutch disks and measure them for recommended thickness according to the Service Manual.

Would also be very good is you took the clutch's slave cylinder apart and check the piston and it's seal for wear.


My Íhlins Project: https://www.rc51forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6033
Quote:
Originally Posted by SubSailor View Post
Congratulation to MakisRC51 for winning the 2014 Bike Of The Year Contest!
MakisRC51 is offline  
post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 10:31 PM
Lifetime Premium
 
madbuyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Indy
Posts: 8,335
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakisRC51 View Post
If you are absolutely sure that there's no air in the system and still the lever engages far from the grip, apart from adjusting your lever to wherever work better for you, you should open the clutch cover, take out the friction and metal clutch disks and measure them for recommended thickness according to the Service Manual.

Would also be very good is you took the clutch's slave cylinder apart and check the piston and it's seal for wear.
Being a 2000, this is sage advice the clutch could be at the end of its service limit. As well, the clutch master cylinder has a spring and rubber parts that deteriorate with age.

This isn't bad news just turning out to be more maintenance that you may have expected.



The very first schoolbook that was written had God all over it. --Dave Mustaine
madbuyer is offline  
 
post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 10:36 PM
Lifetime Premium
 
MakisRC51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Korinthos, Greece
Posts: 3,239
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
I recently changed my slave cylinder's seal kit & piston and the improvement was dramatic.

I had installed new OEM friction and metal plates in the engine back in 2008 when I bought the bike and they have been used for 25.000km so far with no signs of wear at all.


My Íhlins Project: https://www.rc51forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6033
Quote:
Originally Posted by SubSailor View Post
Congratulation to MakisRC51 for winning the 2014 Bike Of The Year Contest!
MakisRC51 is offline  
post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 11:06 PM
Senior Member
 
pbc0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bolton Nr. Manchester
Posts: 219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Nature of the beast with a hydraulic clutch.
Play with it all you want. It's self adjusting so you'll end up where you started.
Plates might be worn.
Air will give opposite effect because it acts like spring in itself.
SP2 judder spring will give more feel & is the best way forward.
Conversion to cable is the ultimate improvement without a doubt.

Last edited by pbc0; 03-26-2014 at 11:09 PM.
pbc0 is offline  
post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 11:20 PM
Lifetime Premium
 
The Stig's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chiba, Japan
Posts: 4,617
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
I haven't tried cable & feel no need to, but if the clutch system is working correctly it should be adjustable to have clutch bike earlier if you want it. I've fitted a larger bore M/C and it releases earlier still, with plenty of disengagement for finding neutral, etc. when I want.

Euro RC51 SP2: HRC WSB Ti Hi-Level, T1 Airbox & Snorkel, PCIII, Dymag CA5 Carbon Wheels, Ti64 Spindles (F, R & Swing Arm), Mori Link, Maxton GP7 Shock & Ohlins 832 Forks, Brembo GP Calipers & SBK narrow track (F), Braketech Disc (R), Brembo billet Underslung x 2 Brembo RCS, Tyga Triple, 7075 Stem, Probolt Titanium all over, Babyface rearsets, MR Complete Carbon Lineup, Custom Undertail & CBR 1000 LED, Watsen LED Indicators, Harris Brace, Giles clip-ons, Corbin seat, etc. 2013 BOTY.
The Stig is offline  
post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 11:31 PM
Senior Member
 
pbc0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bolton Nr. Manchester
Posts: 219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
You can only adjust where the lever sits on the mount relative to the master cylinder, same as your brakes?
You don't adjust your brake lever to compensate for pad wear do you.
So hydraulic systems are self adjusting.

Larger bore M/C will displace more fluid. I'de expect that to give less feel unless the pivot is shorter.

Last edited by pbc0; 03-26-2014 at 11:40 PM.
pbc0 is offline  
post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-26-2014, 11:38 PM
Lifetime Premium
 
The Stig's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chiba, Japan
Posts: 4,617
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Yes, that's right, but it also means the clutch releases less if you adjust the lever so it's closer to the grip - which in effect means it'll bite earlier as there's less release.

Euro RC51 SP2: HRC WSB Ti Hi-Level, T1 Airbox & Snorkel, PCIII, Dymag CA5 Carbon Wheels, Ti64 Spindles (F, R & Swing Arm), Mori Link, Maxton GP7 Shock & Ohlins 832 Forks, Brembo GP Calipers & SBK narrow track (F), Braketech Disc (R), Brembo billet Underslung x 2 Brembo RCS, Tyga Triple, 7075 Stem, Probolt Titanium all over, Babyface rearsets, MR Complete Carbon Lineup, Custom Undertail & CBR 1000 LED, Watsen LED Indicators, Harris Brace, Giles clip-ons, Corbin seat, etc. 2013 BOTY.
The Stig is offline  
post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-27-2014, 12:02 AM
Senior Member
 
pbc0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bolton Nr. Manchester
Posts: 219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stig View Post
Yes, that's right, but it also means the clutch releases less if you adjust the lever so it's closer to the grip - which in effect means it'll bite earlier as there's less release.
No shit Sherlock!

I think the point here is the feel when engaging/disengaging the clutch.
The majority of this is countering the force the clutch springs are exerting on the plates. As soon as the force on the release bearing is the same as the springs, then the clutch is effectively released.
Nothing has moved at this point. Just applied pressure.
Fluid is non compressable so doesnt contribute to "feel" the same way a cable does. As a cable will stretch slightly as it's tensioned.
This ignores the effect of the oil in the multiplate system. But it does back up the theory of fitting the judder spring fitted to the SP2.
pbc0 is offline  
post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-27-2014, 12:53 AM
Lifetime Premium
 
The Stig's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chiba, Japan
Posts: 4,617
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
pbc0, I appreciate you've developed a cable operated system for the RC51 from parts off a Honda Varadero and feel that for you it's the best solution, but l think there's no need to go into how a hydraulic clutch system works compared to a cable operated one, unless we really want to compare the pros and cons of them...(I guess it might be interesting to, though - so I'll discuss below)?

What I'm saying is that there's nothing really so bad about the standard SP2 hydraulic clutch if it's in good working order. At least I never felt anything wrong with mine over a period of 7 years. It didn't grab too early, nor late or feel as if it needed improvement. Perhaps SP1's are different? - I don't know as I've never ridden one. Perhaps someone else can chime in and let us know their thoughts on the SP1 system.

TBH I changed my clutch master only because a good used billet master came up at a good price the same time I bought my forks and it's looks would match my Brembo m/c better so I went for it. It's slightly larger bore and yes it requires slightly more effort to release the clutch as a result & yes the effect is reduced "feel" but even in traffic where I need to slip the clutch accurately I find it doesn't really bother me. I wouldn't have minded at all keeping the standard bore size either.

Personally I prefer a hydraulic clutch release system since it's less troublesome & requires less maintenance over the long term. I've had plenty of bikes over the years with cable operated clutches. Cables stretch over time, need lubrication and if the adjuster at the lever isn't properly set it can cause the cable to chaff and begin to break. If you ever run out of adjustment on a cable system (Because the cable wasn't 100% right to begin with) then it becomes another problem to resolve. Also the OEM lever mechanisms on cable clutch are of typically of lesser quality (They come from cheaper to manufacture bikes after all).

There are pros & cons to both types. Hydraulic system components combined are slightly heavier and may feel a little different at the lever, but generally they're smoother to use since there isn't the friction of a cable inside a sleeve and pistons inside cylinders are effectively always lubricated...

Let's look at the simpler form of brakes on a bike. Would you prefer the precision of a hydraulic system to operate the brakes over a cable operated one?
Me - I'd go for the hydraulic one every time. Because there's usually less "play" and less wasted effort.

For a clutch on every down change I'm pulling in the clutch lever and rev-matching, so why would I want to introduce play & added friction into the system when it would only make the system less efficient & quite probably more trouble prone?

I guess it comes down to preference. I daresay on a race bike where you're shedding the last few grams wherever possible a cable operated system may be preferable (& any decently prepared race bikes will tend to have a quick-shifter & slipper clutch), but on a road bike? With all things considered, I prefer hydraulic.

I think most owners would agree there's really no great need to change the original system as it works fine if in good working order (Makis' experience of changing the slave cylinder seals sounds like good advice). Like anything on a bike, poor maintenance can mean performance can be compromised that's all...it's not necessarily the reason to give up & change a system in it's entirety.

Euro RC51 SP2: HRC WSB Ti Hi-Level, T1 Airbox & Snorkel, PCIII, Dymag CA5 Carbon Wheels, Ti64 Spindles (F, R & Swing Arm), Mori Link, Maxton GP7 Shock & Ohlins 832 Forks, Brembo GP Calipers & SBK narrow track (F), Braketech Disc (R), Brembo billet Underslung x 2 Brembo RCS, Tyga Triple, 7075 Stem, Probolt Titanium all over, Babyface rearsets, MR Complete Carbon Lineup, Custom Undertail & CBR 1000 LED, Watsen LED Indicators, Harris Brace, Giles clip-ons, Corbin seat, etc. 2013 BOTY.

Last edited by The Stig; 03-27-2014 at 01:49 AM.
The Stig is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Honda RC51 Forum : RC51 Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome