RC51 Forums banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,186 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey guys,

I found a bike I'm interested in. Any of you have experience with built inline 4 (I4) sportbikes in the last 10 years?

The bike is a +3mm 1070 GSXR1000. Only 1500 miles on the rebuild. Bike is mint mint with nice bolt on mods. Engine has all the big names. KWS consulted, JE pistons, Yosh RR cams, V&H porting (for street improvements, no low and mid rpm losses), Falicon crank work and clutch basket, Carillo rods, transmission work (undercut and heat treat).

Owner said it is was built as easy streetable, no issues whatsoever with it.

What do you guys think of a bike like this? Back in the carburetor days this type of engine work resulted in poor running or finicky beasts. I don't know much since then.

I did some reading on line and some people are putting 40k+ miles on these builds without issue.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,481 Posts
With so few miles on the rebuild, I'd think it should be ok (knock on wood).

I'd suggest getting all the documentation on the engine work so you'll know what was done, and won't have any surprises or questions down the road.

Especially if any of the parts deviate from OEM specifications.
Things wear out inevitably, and it's easy to know what it has to be able to replace items.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,636 Posts
The huge HP numbers the manufacturers are claiming are plenty enough for me these days.
The big Zook makes monster power do you need more? As streetable as it may sound rebuilt motors with some power in mind will never last as long as a stock motor.
Guys tend to run them harder...just my 2 cents.

If I was looking it would be a stock CBR1000 with BST's and Ohlins all the way around and just a few bling bits.

Plenty fast would handle great and dead reliable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,186 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I'm not into this bike for the engine. It is a rare colour, mint mint, and has other awesome mods including wheels. Don't want a newer bike, rather a specific older one. I've been looking a bit and the general used market has shown me not so mint options.

I should have mentioned it was an older thou. Crazy hp compared to the older versions, but not so much compared to the S1000RR. it dynos peak like an S1000RR, although much much more torque.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,617 Posts
It won't be just about the components, but the experience & reputation of the engine builder I'd say...
I'd check the compression (or better still do a leak-own test) and view the bores with a scope before parting with cash if possible...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,186 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
The builders are some the best out there, which is good.

Anybody else got experience? Pretty quiet.....
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,481 Posts
The beautiful thing about the older Gixxers was the mid-range grunt.
The newer Gixxers (and most bikes) sacrifice mid-range for top end HP numbers.
Mid-range rules on the street.

I've ridden an '08 CBR1000RR and and an '07 Gixxer thou, and at 4000-4500 RPM, the Gixxer seemed like it had a more low-end punch than the CBR.
Granted, 4500 RPM isn't much to an I-4, but we're talking riding in traffic, not on the track (in other words, real world use).

And for my build and stature, I found the Gixxer to be more ergonomic and comfortable.
The CBR seemed cramped with the pegs quite high. The Gixxer seemed roomy by comparison.
Not slamming the CBR, but if push came to shove, I would have chosen the Gixxer for myself for daily use.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
The builders are some the best out there, which is good.

Anybody else got experience? Pretty quiet.....
Did he say who built the motor? Was it a machine shop or a bike shop? What kind of paper work does he have on the motor? How much clearance did they put in the bore, whats the ring gap set at, what size cam, how much seat and open valve spring pressure, does it have titanium valves and beryllium seats, did they cut the guides down, did they instal bronze guides, how much oil clearance are they running, did they deck the block, did they cc the head, whats the compression ratio, whats the dynamic compression ratio, whats the timing set at, what the cam timing set at? These are just a few questions i would be asking when purchasing a "built motor". From what I've seen alot of bike shops dont their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to motors, they can talk the talk but cant walk the walk.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,636 Posts
Did he say who built the motor? Was it a machine shop or a bike shop? What kind of paper work does he have on the motor? How much clearance did they put in the bore, whats the ring gap set at, what size cam, how much seat and open valve spring pressure, does it have titanium valves and beryllium seats, did they cut the guides down, did they instal bronze guides, how much oil clearance are they running, did they deck the block, did they cc the head, whats the compression ratio, whats the dynamic compression ratio, whats the timing set at, what the cam timing set at? These are just a few questions i would be asking when purchasing a "built motor". From what I've seen alot of bike shops dont their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to motors, they can talk the talk but cant walk the walk.
Exactly...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,186 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Thx for the feedback so far. Keep any advice coming. :)

Talked to the owner again. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm fairly comfortable with the engine work. The owner is an older gentleman. Seems to have really taken care of the bike.

Here is the engine info I have.

First, I was wrong on KWS earlier. Fixed that in the earlier post.. KWS was consulted in designing the engine build, but they did no work. Owner said KWS uses hard weld cams and he has had bad experiences with that. Yoshimura use billet blanks from the Suzuki supplier. The bike used Yosh cams.

Yoshimura STRR, or ST-R Type-R Camshaft Set (stage r type r) cams (higher lift and longer duration than stock), valvesprings, retainers, keepers and ecu (timing is not altered from the Yosh ecu)
-------Max Lift (mm) IN 10.0 / EX 8.30
-------1mm Duration IN 253°/ EX 240°
-------Tappet Clearance (mm) IN 0.18-0.22 / EX 0.23-0.27

Powercommander for fuel mapping.

Engine was assembled by a friend who has done a bunch for this guy. Buddy owned his own shop but has now sold the shop and is freelancing as a tuner/builder, often in their local race scene. Assembly included setting up the ring gaps, etc.

Pistons (+3mm) and rings are JE, rings spec'd by the original owner, 3 ring setup, 2 ring scrapers.

Compression ratio is 12.5 (stock it 12).

Millennium Technologies did the boring and replating.

Falicon supercrank (moderate lighten, balance & polish). From there website... The OEM crankshaft is blueprinted to the best combination of oil clearance, moderate lightening and precise tolerance for your specific application. The crank throws are contoured and polished to a mirror finish, improving oil flow and reducing crankcase turbulence. Each crankshaft is custom balanced to the reciprocating weight and intended rpm range, for use with or without the OEM counterbalance (on some models).

Falicon billet clutch basket too.

Vance and Hines head porting and polishing.

Carillo rods.

R&D motorsports did the transmission work - undercut the dogs and heat treated the gears.

No valve seat changes or valve guide work. OEM there.

Engine is built to be street friendly and street reliable. There are more powerful 1070's (with more aggressive cam timing), and bigger engines (1143), and people running NOS, turbos, etc. None of that here. Bike has not been tracked.

Dynoed near 200 whp. A lot of builders can't get to this # so this tells me it was done well.

Engine is now about 4-5 years old. 1500 miles since rebuild (he has a lot of bikes and enjoys building them more than riding them). Compression check yielded 218, 219, 219, 220 a few years ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
Thx for the feedback so far. Keep any advice coming. :)

Talked to the owner again. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm fairly comfortable with the engine work. The owner is an older gentleman. Seems to have really taken care of the bike.

Here is the engine info I have.

First, I was wrong on KWS earlier. Fixed that in the earlier post.. KWS was consulted in designing the engine build, but they did no work. Owner said KWS uses hard weld cams and he has had bad experiences with that. Yoshimura use billet blanks from the Suzuki supplier. The bike used Yosh cams.

Yoshimura STRR, or ST-R Type-R Camshaft Set (stage r type r) cams (higher lift and longer duration than stock), valvesprings, retainers, keepers and ecu (timing is not altered from the Yosh ecu)
-------Max Lift (mm) IN 10.0 / EX 8.30
-------1mm Duration IN 253°/ EX 240°
-------Tappet Clearance (mm) IN 0.18-0.22 / EX 0.23-0.27

Powercommander for fuel mapping.

Engine was assembled by a friend who has done a bunch for this guy. Buddy owned his own shop but has now sold the shop and is freelancing as a tuner/builder, often in their local race scene. Assembly included setting up the ring gaps, etc.

Pistons (+3mm) and rings are JE, rings spec'd by the original owner, 3 ring setup, 2 ring scrapers.

Compression ratio is 12.5 (stock it 12).

Millennium Technologies did the boring and replating.

Falicon supercrank (moderate lighten, balance & polish). From there website... The OEM crankshaft is blueprinted to the best combination of oil clearance, moderate lightening and precise tolerance for your specific application. The crank throws are contoured and polished to a mirror finish, improving oil flow and reducing crankcase turbulence. Each crankshaft is custom balanced to the reciprocating weight and intended rpm range, for use with or without the OEM counterbalance (on some models).

Falicon billet clutch basket too.

Vance and Hines head porting and polishing.

Carillo rods.

R&D motorsports did the transmission work - undercut the dogs and heat treated the gears.

No valve seat changes or valve guide work. OEM there.

Engine is built to be street friendly and street reliable. There are more powerful 1070's (with more aggressive cam timing), and bigger engines (1143), and people running NOS, turbos, etc. None of that here. Bike has not been tracked.

Dynoed near 200 whp. A lot of builders can't get to this # so this tells me it was done well.

Engine is now about 4-5 years old. 1500 miles since rebuild (he has a lot of bikes and enjoys building them more than riding them). Compression check yielded 218, 219, 219, 220 a few years ago.
Sounds like he's near the edge of pump gas, is he running race gas? What do the plug tips look like?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,186 Posts
Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
He has run both pump and race gas. It was near 200 whp on race gas, 10 hp less on pump.

I don't know how near the edge, but it does well on pump gas. I'd run premium in this.

Many other 1070's I've read about are doing 13.5 compression (1 point higher than this). So it doesn't appear that bad. It's only a 1/2 point higher than stock. New GSXR 1000s are now 12.8 to 1. Surprising.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
He has run both pump and race gas. It was near 200 whp on race gas, 10 hp less on pump.

I don't know how near the edge, but it does well on pump gas. I'd run premium in this.

Many other 1070's I've read about are doing 13.5 compression (1 point higher than this). So it doesn't appear that bad. It's only a 1/2 point higher than stock. New GSXR 1000s are now 12.8 to 1. Surprising.
With newer technology it is becoming easier to run more compression and get away with pump gas but this being said what year is the bike? Do they have a tune for pump gas? .5 of a point may not sound like much but it could be the difference between the motor running fine and it detonating and destroying itself, if Suzuki had the compression set at 12.0 then there was a reason for it, were there any precautions taken to prevent detonation? Coated pistons, coated combustion chamber.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top