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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
got a complete, running, 2004 engine for 599 with free shipping from these guys...http://stores.ebay.com/SoCalMotoParts/_i.html?rt=nc&_nkw=RC 51&_sid=901718196&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1581&_pgn=2

they seem to have an assortment of parts for the RC...

Now, if i can find cams, springs and a shaved durhban stator assembly I can build a nice spare engine..

QUESTION: are there aftermarket valves that are flat faced or just hrc ti ones?..want to avoid ti if possible for reliabilty issues (I've read)...

mike pond at tuned performance has a race team..says he knows some members of nicky's old race team and might can get someone to build it...torgot his name...

anybody have answers/feedback? good places to but new parts i.e. wiseco, yoyo slipper etc etc...any old durbahn stuff around?

derrel
 

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The HRC valves were flat-faced, which is where the full 12.8:1 compressions ratio resulted when used with high-compression pistons.
The OEM dished-face valves is what lowers the compression ratio down to 11.8:1.

However, good luck finding the HRC valves. They've been unobtainium for a number of years.

Kibblewhite Performance has made a titanium valve set for a few racers in the past.
They are to be used with their valve seats which are compatible for titanium valves.
And their Ti valves are flat-faced, giving the full compression ration.

They also made the Ti spring retainers for use with HRC/Moriwaki springs and spring seats.
HRC springs are also pretty much history.
If an HRC valve spring set were obtained, it is possible they could be reverse engineered.

The Durbahn lightweight alternator was for race use only at higher revs.
It could not power normal electrical loads for street use.
The OEM altenator rotor can be removed and a few thousands (around .020") shaved off for quicker throttle response.

Pankl in Austria, owns Carrillo Rods and CP Pistons here in the US.
The Carrillo rods I already have in my engine, as well as CP pistons.
CP pistons also come with DLC coated wrist pins also.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
engine parts

wow guys...tks for the info!!!! hmmm, nobody kaes aftermarket, flat faced, SS or stellite or some other material besides ti?? Any idea if kibblewhite still makes their sets? I was reading guys were going to the al retainers cause someone broke a ti one....I have owned my rc less than a year and so I am playing catch up-reading and asking questions to get up to speed...this site is my go to place for info and parts....great guys here!

I appreciate the info...falicon still doing cranks? do they machine your crank or sell you a new one?

Derrel...

I was reading that the stock Honda rods are really strong..true? no need to go to carillo????
I see JE offers a 103 big bore piston...is the respray on the cylinders walls equal or superior to the Honda sleeve treatment?....
derrel
 

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Apparently hrc used stock rods in Aaron's/Colin's motors (would pay to confirm that,I'm no engineer!) but when I purchased angry cams off Dale Warren he strongly recommended using carillo rods to reduce reciprocating mass. I'm in the planning stages of building a big motor and have spent the last 3-4 years gathering info from around the globe,there's still plenty of stuff available to do what you want if just takes a bit of time/patience finding it all.
Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
ok...good to know...lighter weight..i can agree with that...tks for the info...having any luck finding valve train parts??

derrel
 

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The person you need to discuss these questions with is Damon Stewart.
He probably had the hottest RC51 engine in the US.
He is the one who had Kibblewhite develop the Ti valve spring retainers due to the aluminum HRC retainer fail during a race and trashing a piston.
He also had Kibblewhite produce sets of Ti valves and compatible seats for his and others engines, as he was using a modified ECU that allowed revs at least up to 11,000 RPM.
He used CP pistons due consistent dimensions and quality.
I believe he was running OEM rods and noted they were fine at 11K, later found a set of Ti rods on a shelf at Erion Racing, and I'm not sure if moved to them.
I haven't heard from him in quite a while at SpeedZilla, but his handle is DStewart there.
 

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The person you need to discuss these questions with is Damon Stewart.
He probably had the hottest RC51 engine in the US.
He is the one who had Kibblewhite develop the Ti valve spring retainers due to the aluminum HRC retainer fail during a race and trashing a piston.
He also had Kibblewhite produce sets of Ti valves and compatible seats for his and others engines, as he was using a modified ECU that allowed revs at least up to 11,000 RPM.
He used CP pistons due consistent dimensions and quality.
I believe he was running OEM rods and noted they were fine at 11K, later found a set of Ti rods on a shelf at Erion Racing, and I'm not sure if moved to them.
I haven't heard from him in quite a while at SpeedZilla, but his handle is DStewart there.
Great post, good info Sub !

I still remember watching his video when he first got it running... :eek:! His young daughter standing at the stairs like she had been scared awake by hell arriving at the house doorsteps. :p:cool:

Sent from Motorcycle.com Free App
 

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Kibblewhite will still do the titanium retainers, its a special order though. Costs a few hundred dollars.

Kent cams and i think Web cams still do the stage 2 cam based of the HRC cams. Or you can wait for a Moriwaki to pop up, but they seem to have dried up.

The valvetrain is the hard part. You'll have to wait for one to pop up. Its either HRC or Moriwaki and those dried up a long time ago. Every once in a great while a used one pops up....haven't seen one in a year or two though.

Wiseco does pistons, but every once in a great while an HRC or Moriwaki will pop up. I know somebody on speedzilla has a set and they may be open to letting you make copies. I tried a few years back, but was short on money and could not make it happen at the time.

If you are serious about this type of build, you need to contact Roger Ditchfield at RevolutionUK. Roger and his son built and raced VTRs and still build RC motors. They are very well connected with the Moriwaki family. He still offers stage 1,2,and 3 engine builds for the RC. He is often forgotten, because he is located in the UK, but he is the guy to talk to about RC/VTR engine builds. I used to speak with him fairly regular, but since leaving the states and not working on my project, we kind of lost contact.

Hord still does motor builds as well. A few guys have had them build motors and i've heard nothing but good things.

Damon Stewart is also great and like Subsailor mentioned, probably has the most serious build in the states. He was very helpful to me as well and was the one who placed my order etc. with kibblewhite. He is a really stand up guy. I have not seen or heard from him lately, he has not been active on speedzilla either.

Last piece of advice is to dig through the speedzilla archives. There are a lot more threads over there about the HRC and Moriwaki stuff and a lot of knowledge from guys toying with the bikes while the stuff was still available. Those kind of parts pop up a lot more over there as well.

Please feel free to shoot me a PM about anything else, i've done most of the research for this stuff, it's been a little bit but i will try to share as much as i can with you.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Great info!

hey guys, tks for the info! I spoke with hord about building a complete engine...JD said the kibblewhite stuff was crap...first time I heard that...I tried webcams but I don't see anything listed...can you just call them and they make a special one off?

Didn't see CP pistons listed for the rc in their catalog..I guess this stuff is all one off now..

HMmmmm, I thought I read where the Ti retainer broke so people went to AL...can you confirm which is niot breaking?

I'm wondering if the inconsistency in the JE pistons is an issue if hord is going to balance the rotating assembly....I'm wondering if I cant get the flat faced valves, why not do a custom piston to achieve 12.4 or so using stock valves!?

I plan the swain ceramic coat the piston crown as well as the combustion chamber, valve faces and exhaust port to help keep cyl head temp down.

Also plan to have all the bearing surfaces, piston skirt etc. sprayed with the low friction coating

I think falicon does a billet clutch basket right?

any and all info you guys can pass on to me is appreciated GREATLY! engine is being shipped from socal to hord power tomorrow moring...I have to give them a lsit of items I want....estimated time to deliver is 8 weeks or a little more due to swain tech needing to coat items and return...

Derrel
 

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One popped up last year too.....man i wish i could pick that up.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
japanese??

wow, I know a few languages but not Japanese (looks like)...whats special about the hrc crank? I heard they huse a heavy crank..maybe because they use the light stator...was reading about one of the riders c/o not getting traction with it too light...

anybody got any ideas?

Ebay wouldn't ship my motor to hord! sys free shipping but NOT outside CA so its going to tuned performance where the owner says he knows some hrc guys from the old days...we will see what he can do...

ALWAYS OPEN TO IDEAS, SUGGESTIONS ETC!!

 

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Discussion Starter #19
roger

WOW quick reply from Roger at revolution!

Hi Derrel,

Thank you for your enquiry.

Sadly the Moriwaki ST2 camshafts and ST2 valve spring lit are no longer available.

However, I am able to offer the following SP2 Camshaft Kit ex stock as follows:-



“Revolution” Billet Racing camshafts with slotted cam wheels and complete with a valve spring kit consisting of springs, spring base plates and spring caps. This set up is generally used for Twins Racing or dedicated Trackday usage but there are 4 bikes to this spec on the Streets in the UK and 11 in Europe. The cost of this matched kit is £1695.00 GBP delivered to the US.



Here is the camshaft specification for you and your engineers:-



INL EXH

CPL 105 107

Open 30.0 BTDC 60.0 BBDC

Close 60.0 ABDC 26.0 ATDC

Duration 270.0 266.0

V/Clearance 0.200 mm 0.300 mm



Peak Cam Lift 12.3660 mm 11.9800 mm

Peak Valve Lift 12.1660 mm 11.6800 mm

Lift @ TDC 4.565 mm 4.212 mm



ALL AT 1mm (40 thou”) LIFT with ZERO (0mm) valve clearance



For Road Racing (eg I.o.M TT Races) when long straights demand high constant “top end” running, the exhaust CPL can be moved to 110 or even 112.



These camshafts need to be installed into suitably Ported & Gasflowed cylinder heads to maximise efficiency



RECOMMENDED MAXIMUM REVS 11,200rpm



Please contact me again if the Revolution Camshaft kit is of interest to you

Speak soon



Regards

Roger
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Cams

dudeeeeee...THANKS YOU for the info! one name and I found the cam kit incl. springs and retainers from roger....this is what this site is all about! you OG;s helping us new guys with our RC's...I can't thank you enough...

Derrel

Kibblewhite will still do the titanium retainers, its a special order though. Costs a few hundred dollars.

Kent cams and i think Web cams still do the stage 2 cam based of the HRC cams. Or you can wait for a Moriwaki to pop up, but they seem to have dried up.

The valvetrain is the hard part. You'll have to wait for one to pop up. Its either HRC or Moriwaki and those dried up a long time ago. Every once in a great while a used one pops up....haven't seen one in a year or two though.

Wiseco does pistons, but every once in a great while an HRC or Moriwaki will pop up. I know somebody on speedzilla has a set and they may be open to letting you make copies. I tried a few years back, but was short on money and could not make it happen at the time.

If you are serious about this type of build, you need to contact Roger Ditchfield at RevolutionUK. Roger and his son built and raced VTRs and still build RC motors. They are very well connected with the Moriwaki family. He still offers stage 1,2,and 3 engine builds for the RC. He is often forgotten, because he is located in the UK, but he is the guy to talk to about RC/VTR engine builds. I used to speak with him fairly regular, but since leaving the states and not working on my project, we kind of lost contact.

Hord still does motor builds as well. A few guys have had them build motors and i've heard nothing but good things.

Damon Stewart is also great and like Subsailor mentioned, probably has the most serious build in the states. He was very helpful to me as well and was the one who placed my order etc. with kibblewhite. He is a really stand up guy. I have not seen or heard from him lately, he has not been active on speedzilla either.

Last piece of advice is to dig through the speedzilla archives. There are a lot more threads over there about the HRC and Moriwaki stuff and a lot of knowledge from guys toying with the bikes while the stuff was still available. Those kind of parts pop up a lot more over there as well.

Please feel free to shoot me a PM about anything else, i've done most of the research for this stuff, it's been a little bit but i will try to share as much as i can with you.
 
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